[Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

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[Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:49 am

Sexually Aggressive Women: Current Perspectives and Controversies
Edited by Peter B. Anderson and Cindy Struckman-Johnson.
Contributions by thirteen authors.
To paraphrase the actual reactions of some people in our audiences, a woman who persistently demands sex from a reluctant man is viewed as "expressing her sexuality"; a woman who persistently kisses, touches and removes clothing from a reluctant man is being "seductive"; a woman who uses physical restraint to sit on a man or lock him in a room is being "playful"; and a woman who initiates sex with a drunken man is "way too horny for her own good."
In the very first chapter, Sexually Aggressive Women starts off by challenging our basic assumptions and calling out hypocrisy in research of sexual coercion. It points out the way that surveys often neglect to ask about female coercive behavior or male victimization, asking only women about victimization and only men about perpetration. It confronts, in a straightforward manner, the hypocrisy native to our consideration of sex. This is the beginning of a work that, while somewhat uneven due to its structure, is (to the best of my ability to determine) the most complete inspection of adult female-on-male sexual coercion.

It is worth pointing out here for future reference that "sexual coercion" does not focus solely on traditional rape by means of blackmail, force, threat of force, intoxication beyond the point of consent or unconsciousness, etc. Emotional blackmail ("if you loved me you'd"), grabbing the penis and refusing to let go until "consent" is secured, questioning masculinity/sexuality, threatening to end the relationship, intoxication in order to obtain consent (rather than intoxication past the point of consent), making false promises, etc, are also included in the means by which women can engage in sexual coercion of men (and in which men can engage in the sexual coercion of women). While you would probably not be convicted of rape for doing these, they are obviously skeevy and bad.

The work engages in serious examination of male sexual victimization itself, not just simply reminding us that Rape Is Bad (TM) (sorry for ruining anybody's weekend plans). It examines the methods by which women engage in sexual coercion, including numerous stories, both from victims and - on rarer occasions - victimizers. These help to explain the nature of female-on-male sexual violence, and the details reveal a lot of interesting realities.

Statistical and personal stories of the long-term effects also come up in the work, which does illustrate a good amount about the relationship between gender and response to sexual victimization. Unfortunately, these serve only to provide a furtive glance at the great contradiction of male rape victimization: the existence of clear and obvious male victims (the book includes a recounting of a clear act of gang rape of a man by three women, where his "resistance broke down, [and he became] a willing participant") who rate their experience in a positive light.

I would've appreciated more information about the victims who rate their experiences positively. Their stories come up here and there, but are never examined in-depth, and trends of men who rate their experiences positively are not examined closely enough to determine exactly what is going on. Are they interpreting their experiences as non-coercive, or are they reacting positively to experiences that they interpreted as coercive?­ Even though there is a chapter on the subject of male victims, it doesn't really go in-depth on this subject.

The work suffers from its nature. Rather than being a single book written by one or two people, it has chapters that are clearly written separately and then editted and compiled. This leads to some themes being harped on (since one author will deal with them, then another author will deal with them again), or sudden shifts in arguments and tone. Chapter 9 engages in some gross rape erasure, as in the following passage:
The most extreme examples provided included a few men who had unwanted sex while intoxicated: "She layed [sic] on top of me when I was drunk and took off my clothing and went to work" (1988, p. 239). However, it seems likely that this man could have managed to escape if the house was on fire, despite his inebriated state.
Oh, could he have? You know this... how, exactly? Psychic powers? If a woman was heavily intoxicated and didn't fight back against a male victimizer who was smaller than her, would you talk the same way about her? I don't think so. Guess what gender the author of this chapter is. This chapter engages in some really gross manipulation of the evidence: whenever the evidence suggests men might have it the same or worse, it's written off, whereas even minor differences in statistics in favor of women's rape as worse (31% versus 24% had their victimizer use physical violence, a huge difference that couldn't be statistical noise). Where data is missing, the position that women are vastly less likely to be violent victimizers is pushed, proposing that differences that are not recorded must be responsible for this discrepancy. Her bias is obvious, rather extreme and exremely gross.

The very next chapter, however, is an excellent, thought-provoking work that honestly knocks it out of the park. The title is the Treatment and Prevention of Female Sexual Aggression, written by a counseling psychologist who has dealt with patients who have been the victims of female sexual coercion. I'd hate to spoil it for you, since the author does such a good job, but he weaves together his own experience, his peers reactions, sexist assumptions which harm men, especially our society's ability to refuse to conceptualize men as victims over a variety of circumstances (not just sexual), as well as his patients' own experiences and his successful methods of treatment into a wonderful chapter that engaged me both emotionally and mentally in the material on offer.

All in all, despite its uneven tone, it's a damn good book. In addition to reminding us all that rape is bad, it does seriously inspect the differences in treatment of male victims versus female victims, as well as their experiences, in ways that can genuinely surprise. The chapters vary in quality, but there's definitely something here for everyone, including discipline who can probably just reread Chapter 9 over and over while masturbating to her own "progressiveness".

As one of the authors puts it:
...to learn about what sexual coercion means to both women and men, we need to ask them.
This work is one of the best examinations of this issue, even if it has its occasional missteps that are the product of its format or the limited state of research. It's rather depressing that there seems to have been little additional research done in the 14 years since it's publishing.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:46 pm

glad we have a place to discuss mens rights

there are some other mra forums but theyre like spearhead
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:45 pm


It is worth pointing out here for future reference that "sexual coercion" does not focus solely on traditional rape by means of blackmail, force, threat of force, intoxication beyond the point of consent or unconsciousness, etc. Emotional blackmail ("if you loved me you'd"), grabbing the penis and refusing to let go until "consent" is secured, questioning masculinity/sexuality, threatening to end the relationship, intoxication in order to obtain consent (rather than intoxication past the point of consent), making false promises, etc, are also included in the means by which women can engage in sexual coercion of men (and in which men can engage in the sexual coercion of women). While you would probably not be convicted of rape for doing these, they are obviously skeevy and bad.

All sex is rape in a feminist society. The media reinforces this.

Outside feminist society sex is just gross and burdensome.


The work engages in serious examination of male sexual victimization itself, not just simply reminding us that Rape Is Bad (TM) (sorry for ruining anybody's weekend plans).

What a Face

Statistical and personal stories of the long-term effects also come up in the work, which does illustrate a good amount about the relationship between gender and response to sexual victimization. Unfortunately, these serve only to provide a furtive glance at the great contradiction of male rape victimization: the existence of clear and obvious male victims (the book includes a recounting of a clear act of gang rape of a man by three women, where his "resistance broke down, [and he became] a willing participant") who rate their experience in a positive light.

Good point, would be socially unacceptable if the roles were reversed.


I would've appreciated more information about the victims who rate their experiences positively. Their stories come up here and there, but are never examined in-depth, and trends of men who rate their experiences positively are not examined closely enough to determine exactly what is going on. Are they interpreting their experiences as non-coercive, or are they reacting positively to experiences that they interpreted as coercive?­ Even though there is a chapter on the subject of male victims, it doesn't really go in-depth on this subject.

It's assumed that it doesn't require explanation (misandrist privilege).



The work suffers from its nature. Rather than being a single book written by one or two people, it has chapters that are clearly written separately and then editted and compiled. This leads to some themes being harped on (since one author will deal with them, then another author will deal with them again), or sudden shifts in arguments and tone. Chapter 9 engages in some gross rape erasure, as in the following passage:

Basically like the Abrahamic Jew-Christian bible.

Oh, could he have? You know this... how, exactly? Psychic powers? If a woman was heavily intoxicated and didn't fight back against a male victimizer who was smaller than her, would you talk the same way about her? I don't think so. Guess what gender the author of this chapter is. This chapter engages in some really gross manipulation of the evidence: whenever the evidence suggests men might have it the same or worse, it's written off, whereas even minor differences in statistics in favor of women's rape as worse (31% versus 24% had their victimizer use physical violence, a huge difference that couldn't be statistical noise). Where data is missing, the position that women are vastly less likely to be violent victimizers is pushed, proposing that differences that are not recorded must be responsible for this discrepancy. Her bias is obvious, rather extreme and exremely gross.

No grammer necessary. Does she make the claim that more women are raped than men?


The very next chapter, however, is an excellent, thought-provoking work that honestly knocks it out of the park. The title is the Treatment and Prevention of Female Sexual Aggression, written by a counseling psychologist who has dealt with patients who have been the victims of female sexual coercion. I'd hate to spoil it for you, since the author does such a good job, but he weaves together his own experience, his peers reactions, sexist assumptions which harm men, especially our society's ability to refuse to conceptualize men as victims over a variety of circumstances (not just sexual), as well as his patients' own experiences and his successful methods of treatment into a wonderful chapter that engaged me both emotionally and mentally in the material on offer.

Sidenote: Since you have a theory of what creates male rapists, do you have one for female rapists?


Last edited by mustang on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : editing itself)
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:01 pm

mustang wrote:No grammer necessary. Does she make the claim that more women are raped than men?
It was published in 1998, so, yes.

She also does some things where she attempts to minimize it even further for what was done at the time. Hold on, let me grab my copy. Yeah, she quotes Macchietto (who also wrote the tenth chapter, the Good One), who proposed based on the limited evidence of the time that one-third of rape/sexual assault victims are men (I'd say that's a fair guess, even today), and goes on a tirade about how bad all the evidence is and nyeah nyeah nyeah. Blech.
mustang wrote:Sidenote: Since you have a theory of what creates male rapists, do you have one for female rapists?
Same thing: child abuse (esp. physical and neglect). Possible cultural influence, however mild.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:53 pm

Gonna citation multiple on that. Man, this is some nice forum shit and all. Thanks for saving my inbox from rape my messaging by the way.

Cycloneman wrote:
mustang wrote:No grammer necessary. Does she make the claim that more women are raped than men?
It was published in 1998, so, yes.

She also does some things where she attempts to minimize it even further for what was done at the time. Hold on, let me grab my copy. Yeah, she quotes Macchietto (who also wrote the tenth chapter, the Good One), who proposed based on the limited evidence of the time that one-third of rape/sexual assault victims are men (I'd say that's a fair guess, even today), and goes on a tirade about how bad all the evidence is and nyeah nyeah nyeah. Blech.

Well you said that the evidence was limited, I guess it makes it bad evidence.

But why was there so little evidence available in 1998, don't you think that's a sign of bias and insufficient research? A forum poll would be triggering but you should start a blog and collect the evidence yourself too.


mustang wrote:Sidenote: Since you have a theory of what creates male rapists, do you have one for female rapists?
Same thing: child abuse (esp. physical and neglect). Possible cultural influence, however mild.

Very gender neutral, that's good.
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:04 pm

mustang wrote:Gonna citation multiple on that. Man, this is some nice forum shit and all. Thanks for saving my inbox from rape my messaging by the way.

Cycloneman wrote:
mustang wrote:No grammer necessary. Does she make the claim that more women are raped than men?
It was published in 1998, so, yes.

She also does some things where she attempts to minimize it even further for what was done at the time. Hold on, let me grab my copy. Yeah, she quotes Macchietto (who also wrote the tenth chapter, the Good One), who proposed based on the limited evidence of the time that one-third of rape/sexual assault victims are men (I'd say that's a fair guess, even today), and goes on a tirade about how bad all the evidence is and nyeah nyeah nyeah. Blech.

Well you said that the evidence was limited, I guess it makes it bad evidence.

But why was there so little evidence available in 1998, don't you think that's a sign of bias and insufficient research? A forum poll would be triggering but you should start a blog and collect the evidence yourself too.
lol yeah I do think it's a sign of bias and insufficient research. Somebody already started a big page of collecting all the evidence themselves, it's here.

The evidence back in '98 was limited, but that was because it was like, Muehlenhard + Cook and the Struckman-Johnson's who'd done studies. And they didn't find big gender differences either. She spends a bunch of time minimizing their evidence.

What's the name of that bias where you view anything that disagrees with you super critically and don't apply even the slightest thought to the things that agree with you?

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:21 pm

selection bias or something like that. confirmation bias and neglect of probability.

i'm sure you've heard of that study in toronto or whatever where they found male students were more likely to be sexually assaulted than females.
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Squalid on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:57 pm

Jesus I didn't think you were serious about all this mens rights shit. Like I figured you were caught in a IWC esque compulsive troll.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:58 am

Squalid wrote:Jesus I didn't think you were serious about all this mens rights shit. Like I figured you were caught in a IWC esque compulsive troll.
"a boo hoo i hate men and hope they get raped." - you

Welcome to IFAP.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:26 pm

mustang wrote:selection bias or something like that. confirmation bias and neglect of probability.

i'm sure you've heard of that study in toronto or whatever where they found male students were more likely to be sexually assaulted than females.
No, actually. Hit me up.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:48 pm

seriously? it's like the first google result, google harder

actually nevermind, i was thinking of something else. i'm pretty this is what i was talking about.




In 1988, the Journal of Sex Research published a study of nearly 1,000 college students. Its most surprising finding was that far more men than women reported having suffered unwanted intercourse -- 62.7 percent to 46.3 percent. A 2001 study of 285 women at a private midwestern university identified 52 as sexually "coercive" - - based on self-reported admissions of verbal manipulations, and insistent, deceptive, or threatening (including physically) behavior. Of those women, 30 reported "becoming so sexually aroused that they felt it was useless to stop even though the partner did not want to have sex."

its probably one of these

Because researchers in a few recent studies (Aizenman & Kelly, 1988; Lottes, 1991; Muehlenhard & Cook, 1988; Poppen & Segal, 1988; Struckman-Johnson, 1988) have found that U.S. university men have been subjected to coercive strategies by women, we also compared the prevalence of such experiences for men in the two countries. The prediction about country differences in coercion is less obvious for men than women, however. American women, subjected to more traditional sexual and gender socialization, may be less likely to use coercive strategies with men than would women in a more egalitarian society. Nevertheless, in this regard, we do not know how gender roles interact with other aspects of highly egalitarian industrial societies. Anthropologists Levinson (1989) and Sanday (1981) have found that nonindustrial societies that are more egalitarian have lower levels of interpersonal violence.


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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:49 pm

it's not letting me post links. "new members need to wait 7 days to post links"

anyway heres the biblio on that, dig it out



References

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Mynatt, C. R.. & Allgeier. E. factors, self-attributions, and adjustment problems among victims of sexual coercion. Journal of Applied Several 20. 130-153.

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Popenoe, D. (1988). Disturbing the nest: Family change and decline in modern societies. New York: Aldine De Gruyter.

Poppen, P. J., & Segal, N. J. (1988). The influence of sex and sex role orientation on sexual coercion. Sex Roles, 19. 689-701.

Qvarfort, A. M., McCrea, J.. & Kolenda. P. (1988). Sweden's national policy on equality between men and women. In P. Kolenda (Ed.), Cultural constructions of woman (pp. 161-193). Salem, WI: Sheffield.

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Stets, J. E., & Pirog-Good, M. A. (1989). Sexual aggression and control in dating relationships. Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 19, 1392-1412.

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Warshaw, R., & Parrot, A. (1991). The contribution of sex-role socialization to acquaintance rape. In A. Parrot & L. Bechhofer (Eds.), Acquaintance rape: Hidden crime (pp. 73-82). New York. Wiley.

Weiner, T. (March 31, 1991). U.S. leads world in violent crime, panel reports. The Baltimore Sun, pp. 1A, 6A.

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Manuscript accepted May 30, 1996

The research reported here was supported in part with a grant from The Foundation for the Scientific Study of Sexuality.

Send correspondence to Ilsa Lottes, Ph.D., University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Department of Sociology and Anthropology, 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250. Phone: 410-455-2087. E-mail: LOTTES@ UMBC2.UMBC.EDU.
COPYRIGHT 1997 Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, Inc.
No portion of this article can be reproduced without the express written permission from the copyright holder.
Copyright 1997, Gale Group. All rights reserved. Gale Group is a Thomson Corporation Company.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:55 pm

Men's Self-Reports of Unwanted Sexual Activity
Charlene L. Muehlenhard and Stephen W. Cook
The Journal of Sex Research
Vol. 24, (1988), pp. 58-72
Published by: Taylor & Francis, Ltd.
Article Stable URL:
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:40 am

mustang wrote:Men's Self-Reports of Unwanted Sexual Activity
Charlene L. Muehlenhard and Stephen W. Cook
The Journal of Sex Research
Vol. 24, (1988), pp. 58-72
Published by: Taylor & Francis, Ltd.
Article Stable URL:
Oh, yeah, this. Unwanted sexual intercourse is different from sexual coercion. For example, if I have sex because of "peer pressure," or because I was drunk and regretted it the next morning, it's "unwanted sexual intercourse." The category fitting some reasonable definition of sexual assault ("physically forced") was a 50-50 split. The intoxication category included regretted it the next morning so it isn't useful, but it was 30% versus 20%.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:39 pm

So drunk sex isn't rape? That's surprising coming from the premier Rhizzone antirapist.

I can see a lot of the male cases being peer pressure from other guys.

Well thanks for the definitions and all. Have there been any interesting studies since... 1998?



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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:26 pm

mustang wrote:So drunk sex isn't rape? That's surprising coming from the premier Rhizzone antirapist.

I can see a lot of the male cases being peer pressure from other guys.

Well thanks for the definitions and all. Have there been any interesting studies since... 1998?
The Center for Disease Control's National Intimate Partner and Stalker Victimization Survey. Includes rape by envelopment under the category "made to penetrate."

Hines's 2007 study, "Predictors of Sexual Coercion Against Women and Men: A Multilevel, Multinational Study of University Students"

Gamez-Guadix and Straus's 2009 study, "Childhood and adolescent victimization and sexual coercion and assault by male and female university students"

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:11 am

Very different age distribution male/female in the CDC study. Women tend to be molested as children while men tend to be assaulted as adults.

Hines discusses feminist theory. What's the opposing theory here? You need a name for your analysis. MRA theory? Nah. Masculinist theory I guess but that just sounds too much like masochism.

In gg straus childhood abuse/neglect had slightly more effect on men than women, don't know what you want to make of that. Overall it's still remarkable how similar the effects are for both sexes. You gotta campaign against corporal punishment/neglect for girls too I guess.


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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:00 am

mustang wrote:Very different age distribution male/female in the CDC study. Women tend to be molested as children while men tend to be assaulted as adults.

Hines discusses feminist theory. What's the opposing theory here? You need a name for your analysis. MRA theory? Nah. Masculinist theory I guess but that just sounds too much like masochism.
Child abuse as a risk factor for perpetration is a pretty well-evinced theory, but I don't think it has a name.

MRA theory doesn't really provide that many thorough ideas; it points out problems and explains them in terms of social forces, but generally these social forces are fairly trivial to see or so pervasive that they become obvious on first sight. The MRM is based more on practical problems - clear issues with fairly clear solutions - than many ideologies, which is why it comprises such a broad spectrum in the left/right. The question of how much to blame feminists are for, say, the marginalization and anomalization of male victims of rape/female rapists is largely irrelevant (only mildly relevant in that it is clear they do not give a shit [1], so their movement holds no value if you are opposed to that) - the important issue is stopping that. Who is really responsible for the ridiculous laws on paternity fraud (or its widespread commission)? Is it partially biology? Who cares? Knock it off, ladies. Child support needs huge reform, joint custody should be the default assumption, etc.

There is some MRA theory - male disposability, for example, is a really functional idea with enormous numbers of applications - but personally, I try to avoid too much theory as it gets away from the things we know to make suppositions on spurious grounds. Male disposability is a pretty good explanation for a lot of things, though. For example, the indifference towards male victims of rape, DV, etc, is part of a broader culture of ignoring male victimhood in general. For example, see this headline: "A suicide-bomb targeting Shia Hazaras in a busy market in Pakistan’s restive southwest killed 84 people including women and children and wounded 200 others, officials said Sunday." Note the language - "women and children" is tacked on, noted. It wasn't just people, killed, you see - it was the important people, women and children. All kinds of male-dominated fields emerged as male-dominated because they were dangerous. Most of the time, when male victims are mentioned, they aren't called men - they're workers, soldiers, crew, craftspeople, civilians, farmers. I don't know. Might just be a pointless bit of language.
mustang wrote:In gg straus childhood abuse/neglect had slightly more effect on men than women, don't know what you want to make of that. Overall it's still remarkable how similar the effects are for both sexes. You gotta campaign for reduced corporal punishment/neglect for women too I guess.
Rape is a difficult thing to end, much like CSA and other forms of child abuse.

I'd guess the difference between the effect of childhood abuse/neglect is mostly noise.

[1] http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-the-fbi-rape-is-rape

"rape is penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." - new definition. Notice anything missing??

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:45 pm

The question of how much to blame feminists are for, say, the marginalization and anomalization of male victims of rape/female rapists is largely irrelevant (only mildly relevant in that it is clear they do not give a shit [1], so their movement holds no value if you are opposed to that) - the important issue is stopping that.

Some post ideological shit right there

In theory feminists are supposed to be on your side because they don't want rape victimology to be female trait, too bad they don't see that.

Who is really responsible for the ridiculous laws on paternity fraud (or its widespread commission)? Is it partially biology? Who cares? Knock it off, ladies. Child support needs huge reform, joint custody should be the default assumption, etc.

The default assumption maybe but custody usually goes to the primary caregiver who is usually female. You need to encourage male parents if you want to fix all of that. There's also no reason you should care about child reform, children are the product of sex and sex is gross and should be illegal.

All kinds of male-dominated fields emerged as male-dominated because they were dangerous. Most of the time, when male victims are mentioned, they aren't called men - they're workers, soldiers, crew, craftspeople, civilians, farmers. I don't know. Might just be a pointless bit of language.

You can agree with feminists on that one, it goes with women being the weaker/vulnerable sex.


"rape is penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." - new definition. Notice anything missing??

look up: birth rape raping with eyes statutory rape animal rape mental rape

also rape by envelopment as usual Exclamation
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:08 pm

mustang wrote:
The question of how much to blame feminists are for, say, the marginalization and anomalization of male victims of rape/female rapists is largely irrelevant (only mildly relevant in that it is clear they do not give a shit [1], so their movement holds no value if you are opposed to that) - the important issue is stopping that.

Some post ideological shit right there

In theory feminists are supposed to be on your side because they don't want rape victimology to be female trait, too bad they don't see that.
*nods*

I used to be a feminist, but the antipathy towards the very mention of male victims was what did me in.

mustang wrote:
Who is really responsible for the ridiculous laws on paternity fraud (or its widespread commission)? Is it partially biology? Who cares? Knock it off, ladies. Child support needs huge reform, joint custody should be the default assumption, etc.

The default assumption maybe but custody usually goes to the primary caregiver who is usually female. You need to encourage male parents if you want to fix all of that. There's also no reason you should care about child reform, children are the product of sex and sex is gross and should be illegal.
Joint custody is ideal for most cases. Children raised in single-parent homes do worse by most metrics; more likely to flunk out, go to prison, etc. Something like half this nation's kids will be in single-parent homes.

mustang wrote:

"rape is penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." - new definition. Notice anything missing??

look up: birth rape raping with eyes statutory rape animal rape mental rape

also rape by envelopment as usual Exclamation
lol birth rape.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:49 pm


I used to be a feminist, but the antipathy towards the very mention of male victims was what did me in.

I find the existing MRA forums distateful, mostly full of boring angry... people. Like Spearhead. Are there any MRA forums you like that have ex-feminist posters like you? Or is this it?


Joint custody is ideal for most cases. Children raised in single-parent homes do worse by most metrics; more likely to flunk out, go to prison, etc. Something like half this nation's kids will be in single-parent homes.

But then you're letting feminists indoctrinate children!

I also don't think you've said anything about sexual harassment, isn't it harassment of men for women to walk around topless or in revealing clothing?
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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:55 pm

mustang wrote:

I used to be a feminist, but the antipathy towards the very mention of male victims was what did me in.
I find the existing MRA forums distateful, mostly full of boring angry... people. Like Spearhead. Are there any MRA forums you like that have ex-feminist posters like you? Or is this it?
avoiceformen and r/mensrights are generally pretty good, from what I've seen.
mustang wrote:
Joint custody is ideal for most cases. Children raised in single-parent homes do worse by most metrics; more likely to flunk out, go to prison, etc. Something like half this nation's kids will be in single-parent homes.
But then you're letting feminists indoctrinate children!
Not all women are feminists, and it's difficult to indoctrinate a kid if he/she has more than one parent.

I also don't think you've said anything about sexual harassment, isn't it harassment of men for women to walk around topless or in revealing clothing?
I never thought of it like that. Whoa. :neo:

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Squalid on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:08 am

I believe male rape is real but the way you emphasized it seemed so absurd and so obviously made people hate you I couldn't believe you actually cared. I just don't think it's an issue that requires as much harping on as you've given it

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by Cycloneman on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:06 am

Squalid wrote:I believe male rape is real but the way you emphasized it seemed so absurd and so obviously made people hate you I couldn't believe you actually cared. I just don't think it's an issue that requires as much harping on as you've given it
It is fine not to care, honestly. It's the antipathy that bothers me.

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Re: [Review] Sexually Aggressive Women

Post by mustang on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:10 am

Tempted to troll reddit with cuckold porn but I think I'll defer.

AVFM looks interesting but I emailed them with my weird problems registering.

I read a few Reddit posts about creep shaming but my head exploded, I'll have to get back to that later. Can't honestly say I'm as committed to this stuff as you are. But then I never cared for marxofeministdialecticism either.

Not to take away from your accomplishments, just think you should channel your effort into something productive like writing a MRA version of "buy some ovaries and flee to Mars to create a self-sustaining autosexual civilization." That or start a campus MRA group because there seem to be very few successful ones.

It's really too bad feminists and MRAs can't get along, it's like the Mao versus USSR of the internet.

Here's one possibly interesting question. If marriage is a matriarchal institution do you agree with feminists that it should be abolished?
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